dianne
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by dianne on Nov 8, 2007 4:35:57 GMT -5
About offering the myu and episodes for download... I think it's great that you're trying to get more fans interested in Sera Myu, but why don't you offer links to online shops where people can buy the Myu (and the anime and PGSM) DVDs and support the creators? I checked your shopping guide and most of the links are to bootleg shops... Some reputable places that sell legitimate Sailor Moon DVDs and other goods are Amazon.co.jp, CDJapan.co.jp, or Yesasia.com. You have an article about how bootlegs are bad, but offering downloads of entire episodes/musicals/etc. is the same thing. You may not be personally making money off of it, but you are deterring other fans from purchasing the real DVDs. Why buy it when they can download it from your site?
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Post by haruka173 on Nov 8, 2007 5:25:20 GMT -5
^ Sweetheart, not everyone can access those Japanese sites. And not to mention that those shops which you're saying are bootlegged only offer the Myu SUBTITLED. >_>0 AND they come with additional copy telling all their buyers, "If you want to support the original Myus please buy originals!" Also, the animated episodes have NOT been licensed to ALL countries, and many of the countries which already had the episodes can no longer renew their licenses to them. I believe that Betty Ann is doing this for many of our members who do not or cannot find any other means of watching the episodes. (FYI, lots of people still have dial up and cannot torrent, and some can't even afford to order online just yet.) Finally, as for the possibility of offering PGSM episodes... I'll be honest with you, not everyone has heard of them at all. Even in countries where Sailormoon used to be a very big thing - in Manila, the Philippines, where I live, almost no one knows of PGSM even if back in the day, everyone and their sister was a fan. (As an aside, this made it easy for a local channel to rip off the PGSM costumes and key story elements, but that's another story for another day.) Again, I think it's actually a good thing to offer the episodes piecemeal so that the fandom for PGSM increases. I'm not trying to flame you here. I'm just saying that Betty Ann has her reasons for offering those services. Sailormoon no longer exists as a legitimate international property (barely a passing mention in Toei and Kodansha's websites, for one thing); it only lives on through the fans. But based on what I know about what happened in the US market, fansub groups of the 1980s and early 1990s contributed to the rise of Viz Media, ADVision, and other companies which sought to distribute licensed anime. What our dear admin is doing here is something like that; hopefully, it may drum up interest in those distribution companies I mentioned for re-licensing and re-marketing the Sailormoon anime and manga globally, and even include legitimate international distribution of Seramyu and PGSM videos. What Yesasia, CDJapan, and Amazon are doing is simply selling the products raw; these shops don't have licenses to distribute them for foreign release either.
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Post by Betty Ann on Nov 8, 2007 13:33:44 GMT -5
I think it's great that you're trying to get more fans interested in Sera Myu, but why don't you offer links to online shops where people can buy the Myu (and the anime and PGSM) DVDs and support the creators? I'm not so much trying to garner interest in Sera Myu as to try to provide access to it for fans who otherwise could not even see it. My main reason for offering the flash videos is that there are tons of people who are interested in Sera Myu but have absolutely NO way of watching it. Like haruka said, there are many, many people who have no possible way to watch Sailor Moon. My goal here is to help other people and keep Sailor Moon alive. I checked your shopping guide and most of the links are to bootleg shops... That's because most places which sell Sailor Moon are only going to have bootlegs. The boxed sets are outrageously expensive, and they are not even licensed for sale in many countries. Many, many websites have sprung up selling bootlegs, and there simply aren't as many places which sell legitimate DVDs. I'm not trying to hawk bootlegs or anything like that; the fact of the matter is just that there are more bootleg sellers than legit DVD sellers. And I am extremely clear and honest about whether the sites I have listed sell bootlegs. I ALWAYS note if they are selling bootlegs or legit DVDs. Some reputable places that sell legitimate Sailor Moon DVDs and other goods are Amazon.co.jp, CDJapan.co.jp, or Yesasia.com. That is true, and I need to link those sites whenever I update the shopping guide again (believe me, it's not updated very often). But you also need to understand that MANY people cannot access those sites because they are in Japanese. And even if they could, the DVDs would not play on their DVD players due to region codes, which prevent DVDs produced in one part of the world from playing in other parts of the world. For example, if I bought a legitimate DVD from YesAsia.com, it would absolutely NOT play on my DVD player. You have an article about how bootlegs are bad, but offering downloads of entire episodes/musicals/etc. is the same thing. You may not be personally making money off of it, but you are deterring other fans from purchasing the real DVDs. Why buy it when they can download it from your site? lol, I'm actually losing quite a bit of money from it. Also, I am not trying to deter anyone from buying anything. I think I'm pretty clear in telling people that they should buy the DVDs if they can. But you have to understand that for many people, that's just unrealistic. I understand that, which is why I want to offer fans a way of watching Sailor Moon. If you buy legitimate DVDs from Japan, you are going to spend a ton of money and not even be able to watch the DVDs. If you try to buy the legitimate versions for your country, they're going to be impossible to find (since they are no longer licensed for most countries), and they will cost hundreds of dollars. Furthermore, you'll be buying them used, so you're not helping the company or creators of the series anyway. Often, if you do try to buy the legit DVDs, you are only going to get bootlegs anyway from people who think they're legit (that's the primary reason for my article; so that people can know the difference). If you purchase bootlegs, you're not helping the company. I mean, there's just no good way to watch Sailor Moon these days. So I want to offer a way for people to do that. If people are completely unable to watch the series, how can it possibly stay alive? I don't want to see Sailor Moon die.
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Post by Betty Ann on Nov 8, 2007 13:37:08 GMT -5
But based on what I know about what happened in the US market, fansub groups of the 1980s and early 1990s contributed to the rise of Viz Media, ADVision, and other companies which sought to distribute licensed anime. This is absolutely true. If not for fan interest, Sailor Moon would have never come to the US. Certainly, the later seasons like S and SuperS would have never been dubbed or subbed. It's like with My Little Ponies. They stopped making them in the early 90s, but people were still absolutely wild about them. Due to all the fan interest, they just started making them again a few years ago! Older fans are overjoyed, and now their children can even play with their beloved childhood toy, ensuring that My Little Ponies will be around for at least another generation. Fan interest is extremely important!
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Larry Laffer
Dream Mirror
l33t Smartass
I shall not BOW! EVER!
Posts: 6,625
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Post by Larry Laffer on Nov 8, 2007 14:11:33 GMT -5
Minor note: And even if they could, the DVDs would not play on their DVD players due to region codes, which prevent DVDs produced in one part of the world from playing in other parts of the world. For example, if I bought a legitimate DVD from YesAsia.com, it would absolutely NOT play on my DVD player. You could always hack your DVD player to declare a different time zone... of course that would void whatever warranties it has, and might actually be illegal in certain areas, but what's that compared to watching legitimate Myu DVDs?
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dianne
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by dianne on Nov 8, 2007 14:11:39 GMT -5
I'm not so much trying to garner interest in Sera Myu as to try to provide access to it for fans who otherwise could not even see it. My main reason for offering the flash videos is that there are tons of people who are interested in Sera Myu but have absolutely NO way of watching it. Like haruka said, there are many, many people who have no possible way to watch Sailor Moon. My goal here is to help other people and keep Sailor Moon alive. The legitimate DVDs are very easily accessible to any person that has a good grasp of English. That's because most places which sell Sailor Moon are only going to have bootlegs. The boxed sets are outrageously expensive, and they are not even licensed for sale in many countries. Many, many websites have sprung up selling bootlegs, and there simply aren't as many places which sell legitimate DVDs. I'm not trying to hawk bootlegs or anything like that; the fact of the matter is just that there are more bootleg sellers than legit DVD sellers. And I am extremely clear and honest about whether the sites I have listed sell bootlegs. I ALWAYS note if they are selling bootlegs or legit DVDs. I understand that is much easier to find bootleg, subtitled copies, and it's great that you let your visitors know which ones are bootlegs or not, but it's still really easy to get the R2 DVDs. That is true, and I need to link those sites whenever I update the shopping guide again (believe me, it's not updated very often). But you also need to understand that MANY people cannot access those sites because they are in Japanese. And even if they could, the DVDs would not play on their DVD players due to region codes, which prevent DVDs produced in one part of the world from playing in other parts of the world. For example, if I bought a legitimate DVD from YesAsia.com, it would absolutely NOT play on my DVD player. Both CDjapan.co.jp and Yesasia.com are 100% in English. Amazon.co.jp's pages can be viewed in English as well, the only thing you can't display are titles, but I think most fans could recognize the katakana for Sailor Moon. And people can tell what the item is by looking at the picture. I own 24 Region 2 Sailor Moon DVDs and several other DVDs from Japan. I can play them on my American bought DVD player. The truth is, most DVD players are hackable to be able to play other regions. (heh all I have to do is press vol + vol - vol + vol - in the menu and it changes XD) And even if a person's player isn't, you can buy regionless DVD players in electronic stores or online. Also, I am not trying to deter anyone from buying anything. I think I'm pretty clear in telling people that they should buy the DVDs if they can. But you have to understand that for many people, that's just unrealistic. I understand that, which is why I want to offer fans a way of watching Sailor Moon. If you buy legitimate DVDs from Japan, you are going to spend a ton of money and not even be able to watch the DVDs. If you try to buy the legitimate versions for your country, they're going to be impossible to find (since they are no longer licensed for most countries), and they will cost hundreds of dollars. Furthermore, you'll be buying them used, so you're not helping the company or creators of the series anyway. Often, if you do try to buy the legit DVDs, you are only going to get bootlegs anyway from people who think they're legit (that's the primary reason for my article; so that people can know the difference). If you purchase bootlegs, you're not helping the company. I mean, there's just no good way to watch Sailor Moon these days. So I want to offer a way for people to do that. If people are completely unable to watch the series, how can it possibly stay alive? I don't want to see Sailor Moon die. I undestand your sentiment, and I think it's really cool that you're devoted to keeping the fandom alive. Really, though, you're enabling people to steal. If you uploaded clips of stuff, versus everything in its entirety, then maybe people would be more inticed to purchase the legitimate releases. Yes, if I purchase bootlegs DVDs, I'm not helping the company. Offering it for download is the same principal, unfortunately, and it's illegal. I dunno my philosophy is that if it's still commercially available and easily accessible (because it really is), it shouldn't be available to download.
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Larry Laffer
Dream Mirror
l33t Smartass
I shall not BOW! EVER!
Posts: 6,625
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Post by Larry Laffer on Nov 8, 2007 14:17:22 GMT -5
I dunno my philosophy is that if it's still commercially available and easily accessible (because it really is), it shouldn't be available to download. Then, I assume you don't have a problem with wiring me some money to buy some otherwise easily accessible items which I can't afford?
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Post by TotallyUsagi on Nov 8, 2007 14:55:39 GMT -5
I dunno my philosophy is that if it's still commercially available and easily accessible (because it really is), it shouldn't be available to download. Sorry hun, but even though it's easy to get it from another country, No one really owns it or sells it in America anymore, which I would think makes it fair game to make it available for download. So maybe other people wish to spend half of their money on getting something that may or may not be of good quality or even really get anything at all (I've been jipped many a time over the internet) from a country across the world, but I'll just stick with downloads. And no, what she is doing is nothing like pirated DVDs because she's not charging for it. Those people not only are making it so the companies aren't getting money, but they're profiting off someone else's product. So believe me, between seeing her making downloads available and seeing people offering bootleg DVDS, I doubt that Betty Ann would be the one that companies would get angry at.
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dianne
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by dianne on Nov 8, 2007 15:33:38 GMT -5
Sorry hun, but even though it's easy to get it from another country, No one really owns it or sells it in America anymore, which I would think makes it fair game to make it available for download. How does this make it fair game?? If the material was no longer available, or EXCESSIVELY difficult to obtain, I could understand. In this case, neither of these things are true. So maybe other people wish to spend half of their money on getting something that may or may not be of good quality or even really get anything at all (I've been jipped many a time over the internet) from a country across the world, but I'll just stick with downloads. All three of the sites I mentioned sell the official DVDs. They are of the best quality that is available because they are the official Japanese releases. They don't sell any bootlegs, and they are all reputable, legitimate companies that myself and countless others have purchased from before without a hitch. And no, what she is doing is nothing like pirated DVDs because she's not charging for it. Those people not only are making it so the companies aren't getting money, but they're profiting off someone else's product. So believe me, between seeing her making downloads available and seeing people offering bootleg DVDS, I doubt that Betty Ann would be the one that companies would get angry at. You're absolutely right, Betty Ann's actions are really not completely comprable to those of bootleggers, that is on another level entirely. However, the fact of the matter is that she is distributing copyrighted material without permission, which is illegal. I'm not trying to judge anyone, just trying to state the facts because people for whatever reason cannot admit that what is happening is against the law, even if it may help out the fans (which is a common "justification" of this activity, but no matter the reason to "justify" it, it's still just as illegal). Of course the copyright holders would get angrier at those selling bootleg copies, because not only are they stealing the material and making money off it, they're releasing much lesser quality versions which some people may attribute to the creators themselves, thereby negatively affecting their image and hurting the owners even more. However, offering the material for download is causing the copyright holders to lose a lot of money too. They're seeing something for free that otherwise, if the customary and legal steps were taken, would cost them money. Also, it completely devalues the DVDs - honestly, why would someone buy something if they can get it for free?
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Post by TotallyUsagi on Nov 8, 2007 16:48:25 GMT -5
The material ISN'T available in America. It may be available to Americans, but that's not the same.
The copyright is not actually owned by anyone in America.
While the episodes in question are indeed Japanese episodes, owned by Toei over there. Unless they sell it over here, not many people are going to buy it ANYWAY. So considering the fact that they AREN'T selling it over here, I would be under the impression that... they get plenty of money from their people, and probably are happy to get the money from Americans in the first place, and don't care that some of them are watching it without paying.
So, IF that is true (which I'm not saying it is, but it seems that way) that the company doesn't care, I honestly don't see a problem with it, whether it's legal or not.
Anyway, my point is, why waste your breath on something so trivial? Unless you chew out every last person that makes a traffic violation or smokes under the age or 18, or whatever other illegal things that most people turn their heads on, why do you choose to fight this one case?
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Post by Betty Ann on Nov 8, 2007 17:06:16 GMT -5
I understand that is much easier to find bootleg, subtitled copies, and it's great that you let your visitors know which ones are bootlegs or not, but it's still really easy to get the R2 DVDs. But still, they won't play on your standard DVD player. You can either spend a few hundred more dollars on a region-free DVD player (keep in mind that you already spent hundreds of dollars on DVDs) or you can hack your current DVD players which is in some cases illegal. Or it can break your DVD player and void the warranty. I think most fans could recognize the katakana for Sailor Moon. I have to disagree with you on that; I don't think most fans would recognize the Katakana for Sailor Moon, especially if they are only familiar with the English dub. Which brings me to.... All three of the sites I mentioned sell the official DVDs. They are of the best quality that is available because they are the official Japanese releases. That's really only a good argument if you're looking for the Japanese releases. Most English-speaking Sailor Moon fans don't want the Japanese releases; they don't speak Japanese! That's why people wanted the subtitled or dubbed versions, which are extremely difficult to get. And what I offer is subtitled versions (which are no longer sold in the US), not raw Japanese versions. The versions I offer online with subtitled are NOT commercially available in the US or most countries. They are extremely difficult to obtain because they are no longer produced or sold. Buying a legitimate copy of one of these DVD sets is going to cost hundreds of dollars, which most people simply cannot afford and are not going to pay for. Unless you essentially strike gold, you are going to have to buy these sets used, which is where many people get scammed (like TotallyUsagi pointed out). So here are the options you are proposing for most Sailor Moon fans: 1 - Spend years learning Japanese and only buy the official Japanese releases from legit sources. Then either purchase an expensive DVD player OR hack your own while risking breaking it, voiding the warranty, or doing something illegal. 2 - Spend literally hundreds of dollars on the legit US boxed sets which you can only buy used. Buying used does NOT help the company in any way. Neither of those really sounds feasible to the average person. If those are the only ways to watch Sailor Moon, then it is going to die. honestly, why would someone buy something if they can get it for free? Probably for the same reason that so many people paid for the new Radiohead album which was released. They made it available for free, and people still bought it. I own a LOT of Sailor Moon merchandise. I could have gotten free artbook scans from sites like MangaStyle, but instead I spent a ton of money to buy the artbooks, and I suspect a lot of people do the same. Also, if my ad revenue from Amazon says anything, people ARE buying Sailor Moon DVD sets on Amazon from third-party sellers (although they are almost ALWAYS bootleg copies). The point is, people could watch the episodes for free through my site, but a lot of people are going through the links on my site to buy the DVDs as well. [Note: I get a small commission if someone buys something from Amazon through one of my links. That money goes straight to hosting and site fees] EDIT: I did notice that you intend to offer downloads of hard-to-find songs on your website, so I am wondering what your argument for that is? Isn't scanning every page from a rare CD booklet also the same principal?
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dianne
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by dianne on Nov 8, 2007 18:13:43 GMT -5
But still, they won't play on your standard DVD player. You can either spend a few hundred more dollars on a region-free DVD player (keep in mind that you already spent hundreds of dollars on DVDs) or you can hack your current DVD players which is in some cases illegal. Or it can break your DVD player and void the warranty. I've never heard anything about being able to hack DVDs as illegal. The manufacturers left the option on the unit to be able to be hacked, and it's pretty common knowledge that players are hackable. If it was illegal, they wouldn't do that. If it was illegal, you wouldn't be able to change the region on DVDRoms a certain number of times either. You can get region free DVD players for as low as $60 bucks too! ]I have to disagree with you on that; I don't think most fans would recognize the Katakana for Sailor Moon, especially if they are only familiar with the English dub. Which brings me to.... I wouldn't expect fans of the English dub to recognize the title in Japanese. I'm not talking about people who are fans of the English dub. That's really only a good argument if you're looking for the Japanese releases. Most English-speaking Sailor Moon fans don't want the Japanese releases; they don't speak Japanese! That's why people wanted the subtitled or dubbed versions, which are extremely difficult to get. And what I offer is subtitled versions (which are no longer sold in the US), not raw Japanese versions. The versions I offer online with subtitled are NOT commercially available in the US or most countries. They are extremely difficult to obtain because they are no longer produced or sold. Buying a legitimate copy of one of these DVD sets is going to cost hundreds of dollars, which most people simply cannot afford and are not going to pay for. Unless you essentially strike gold, you are going to have to buy these sets used, which is where many people get scammed (like TotallyUsagi pointed out). So here are the options you are proposing for most Sailor Moon fans: 1 - Spend years learning Japanese and only buy the official Japanese releases from legit sources. Then either purchase an expensive DVD player OR hack your own while risking breaking it, voiding the warranty, or doing something illegal. 2 - Spend literally hundreds of dollars on the legit US boxed sets which you can only buy used. Buying used does NOT help the company in any way. Neither of those really sounds feasible to the average person. If those are the only ways to watch Sailor Moon, then it is going to die. Probably for the same reason that so many people paid for the new Radiohead album which was released. They made it available for free, and people still bought it. I own a LOT of Sailor Moon merchandise. I could have gotten free artbook scans from sites like MangaStyle, but instead I spent a ton of money to buy the artbooks, and I suspect a lot of people do the same. I am not talking about the American releases, which I know have been out of print since 2004. I am talking about the fact that since the only legitimate alternative to buy them is that Japanese ones. If you can't buy it legally, maybe you shouldn't be buying it? Unless of course if it's second hand, which is legal. It's just my personal philosophy. If the DVDs were out of print in Japan, I can more than ratonalize offering the musicals or episodes for download since there is NO way at that point to be able to buy them. My whole point was that instead of pushing the bootleg sellers first to at least offer the option on your site of place to buy the real releases. Also, if my ad revenue from Amazon says anything, people ARE buying Sailor Moon DVD sets on Amazon from third-party sellers (although they are almost ALWAYS bootleg copies). The point is, people could watch the episodes for free through my site, but a lot of people are going through the links on my site to buy the DVDs as well. [Note: I get a small commission if someone buys something from Amazon through one of my links. That money goes straight to hosting and site fees] How is it good that they're buying bootleg boxsets? I think the problem more lies with the fact that Amazon allows them to be listed. We intend to only offer things that are no longer commercially available. The Shin Densetsu Kourin soundtrack has been out of print for several years. It's not like we're offering the soundtrack itself for download anyway. The reason why we offer scans of the booklet is because you can't find them anywhere online and it's an archive of what the products were. My point kind of got lost along the way in this thread, really all I was suggesting was that you list links to sites that carry official Sailor Moon goods! (: You are right about the episodes being out of print commercially. For something like the musicals, however, and PGSM, which never has and never will see a commercial release here in the states (or anywhere else outside of Japan), the only real choice is to buy the real deal. One option is getting fansubs and then buying the real DVDs so you know what they're saying. ;D And really, I do understand that most people don't have a lot of money to spend on these DVDs. I just wanted to say I think there should be an alternative to just the bootlegs. I think a lot of people are just uneducated on what the options are for getting legitimate releases, and I just want to help people learn that it's possible to get the real stuff.
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Amy-Chan
Dream Mirror
Water is a thing that flows!
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Posts: 6,182
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Post by Amy-Chan on Nov 9, 2007 0:43:44 GMT -5
i think there's very few if any above say the age 12-13 who don't know downloading vids off the net is illegal, bootlegs may be illegal but i'd say not many know the difference in what they're buying, they think its aright if the box looks real.
on the subject of japanese versions, many download these versions because in most anime, the originals are much different, but the fact is few speak japanese that watch them but are not of japanese descent, I myself cannot understand japanese bar a very few words and i don't recognise the writing despite having seen all the anime and live... in a idealistic world where i understand japanese and actually had ANY money to be able to buy, then i'd love to have the dvd's, otherwise internet downloads which have subs are the only way I can enjoy these programs.
On the subject of legalities, there's probably few who have't committed a crime, video recorders have been sold for something like 3 decades but you know its not actually legal to record programs and films on them, its the same as bootlegging or downloading as your tv license or whatever does't pay for the right to record... just watch the live broadcast.
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Post by haruka173 on Nov 9, 2007 8:12:43 GMT -5
I've never heard anything about being able to hack DVDs as illegal. The manufacturers left the option on the unit to be able to be hacked, and it's pretty common knowledge that players are hackable. If it was illegal, they wouldn't do that. If it was illegal, you wouldn't be able to change the region on DVDRoms a certain number of times either. You can get region free DVD players for as low as $60 bucks too! What planet have you been living in? DVD players and DVDs are technically not supposed to be hackable (I remember Sony's announcement about their DVD players being unhackable and it makes me laugh every time because lo and behold people were hawking them, thoroughly modded, in our city within two weeks), but as these are produced by humans, expect other humans to be able to find a way to hack them. And FYI, many (note, not all, just many) region-free DVD players are actually BOOTLEGS of original DVD players. I live in a country that's chock-full of piracy so there. I wouldn't expect fans of the English dub to recognize the title in Japanese. I'm not talking about people who are fans of the English dub. I am not talking about the American releases, which I know have been out of print since 2004. I am talking about the fact that since the only legitimate alternative to buy them is that Japanese ones. If you can't buy it legally, maybe you shouldn't be buying it? Unless of course if it's second hand, which is legal. It's just my personal philosophy. If the DVDs were out of print in Japan, I can more than ratonalize offering the musicals or episodes for download since there is NO way at that point to be able to buy them. My whole point was that instead of pushing the bootleg sellers first to at least offer the option on your site of place to buy the real releases. How is it good that they're buying bootleg boxsets? I think the problem more lies with the fact that Amazon allows them to be listed. But see, there are fans who want to see the original Japanese version but do not have the time, money and/or opportunity to do so. What Betty Ann is doing is essentially making it available to these such fans. And see, you said it yourself. She has no way of influencing buyers on Amazon to not buy the bootlegs anyhow. We intend to only offer things that are no longer commercially available. The Shin Densetsu Kourin soundtrack has been out of print for several years. It's not like we're offering the soundtrack itself for download anyway. The reason why we offer scans of the booklet is because you can't find them anywhere online and it's an archive of what the products were. Haha Betty, good one! Dianne dear, you're still offering the bloody scans. That's almost the same because whether or not you're offering a product that isn't originally yours by whole or by part, anti-piracy laws say that you're still offering a product that isn't yours. You just bought the booklet along with the album, but you didn't make it; therefore, if we were to go by your reasoning, you shouldn't be able to offer the booklet either. That's as far as I can remember about my law and mass media classes (just so you know where I'm coming from, I finished AB Communication, major in Broadcast Communication, in the University of the Philippines.) My point kind of got lost along the way in this thread, really all I was suggesting was that you list links to sites that carry official Sailor Moon goods! (: You are right about the episodes being out of print commercially. For something like the musicals, however, and PGSM, which never has and never will see a commercial release here in the states (or anywhere else outside of Japan), the only real choice is to buy the real deal. One option is getting fansubs and then buying the real DVDs so you know what they're saying. ;D And really, I do understand that most people don't have a lot of money to spend on these DVDs. I just wanted to say I think there should be an alternative to just the bootlegs. I think a lot of people are just uneducated on what the options are for getting legitimate releases, and I just want to help people learn that it's possible to get the real stuff. But see, where and how the heck are we supposed to buy them? Case in point: I live in the Philippines. I have no relatives in Japan. The two friends I do have who are there are flat broke and not even remotely interested in looking for Seramyu or PGSM goods for me even if I had the money to cough up to buy it (and because it is Sailormoon we're talking about I WILL cough up money to buy any related merchandise including videos). I'd like to get a credit card again, but I just had really bad standing with a credit card company lately (due to an emergency at home) so I'd rather not go through the trouble. How else then will I be able to get my Sailormoon fix, hmm?
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Post by Ellethwen on Nov 9, 2007 22:28:46 GMT -5
Dianne, I can see where everyone is coming from. I think I have to disagree with you, however. And yes, I am going to go with the conversation of why you think downloading them is wrong. This is rather like an issue brought up not only 1 or 2 pages ago where we got off track and started talking about downloading things such as movies. The issue got into the realms of copyright. The general consensus was that if we had the money, we would buy it. Sailor Moon is difficult because the licenses for it in America are now void. It cannot be legally sold by stores in anywhere but Japan. This isn't anything new, but it is near IMPOSSIBLE to buy the DVDs. Take me for example. I'm a jobless high school student. I'd love to buy the Sailor Moon DVDs. But as they're hard to obtain, highly expensive, in a language I know little of, and would involve me hacking the family DVD player to play them, I would much rather spend any money I wind up earning on things such as The Lord of the Rings. After all, those DVDs are legally available in this country, easy to obtain, and don't involve me doing illegal activities. As for your "hacking DVD players isn't illegal", yes, it is. DVD regions were created so that DVDs couldn't be played in parts of the world where that DVD hadn't yet been released. Yes, there are some international ones, but this would be Region 8, which are for things such as airplanes. There was obviously a reason behind making regions.... Yes, hacking your DVD player is illegal in at least 1 place for sure, which would be Iowa. I was going to find the exact law that stated this sort of thing, but I had enough of looking for it when I found the 2 chapters on what to do with unclaimed dry cleaning and deer venison. Oy, my state is dumb. By modifying your DVD player when it's not supposed to be, aren't you taking money away from the companies who manufacture DVD players that are regionless or have different regions then the one you have? I'm going to go back to the Lord of the Rings here, because it seems to work as a good example from my point of view. I run a little LotR fansite, The Light of the Evenstar. I am working on a product guide for it at the moment and am hoping to get my scanner fixed so I can scan in my huge collection of trading cards and the covers of the DVDs because the shots I found on the Internet were really bad. A while ago I debated adding short clips for download on my site...and I decided not to. Why? Because I figured that finding LotR isn't too hard as its not so old, and it's not terribly expensive to buy the regular DVDs. I can go to Wal-mart and pick them up if I wanted to (except I already have them, but that's beside the point). Not to mention the license for LotR in America is still in effect as are all the copyrights. The fact is, there are some things that are getting really hard to obtain. I can see right now that the LotR fanbase is fading because things are going out of print. A good example would be several board games that I own. You can no longer buy a good amount of LotR board games-especially the Collector's Edition ones-because they are out of print and most fans don't want to sell them (at least, not yet). So what can I do for my "Purchase from" links on the product pages for the things that are out of print? All I can do is post a link to Ebay and hope people get the real deal. I own a book of intermediate clarinet music from LotR. I'm scanning it in, but only the picture pages and not the actual music. Why? Because the music is copyrighted and the book is easily obtainable. If it wasn't I would put the sheets up for downlaod. I am creating scans of the things I bought with my meager amount of money in order to encourage people to purchase them. People are more likely to buy things when they see how it looks. Betty Ann's options are even slimmer as far as avoiding bootlegs because there are a TON of bootlegs out there. I can look through Ebay and look really hard and buy a boxed set of Sailor Moon DVDs, only to find out that for all my carefulness, I still wind up with a bootleg. A nice one, but nonetheless, a bootleg. Is Betty Ann supposed to be held accountable for the doings of all the sites she links to? There are some people who are okay with bootlegs in the first place. My philosophy, from the point of view of someone who always buys stuff from the local stores around here, is that as long as it's a good quality bootleg of something that you can't find in America anymore, it's okay. Back to the point of my site. I can tell you right now that the people downloading or watching on Betty Ann's site are fans of Sailor Moon who would probably scream a loud resounding "YES!" if they had the resources to buy the DVDs. I am one of them. I am the sort of person who downloads only if there is no other option-and I sometimes even buy multiple copies of the same thing. God, I have the original LotR DVDs plus their extended editions, and I'm striving towards owning those special editions! Most people will buy things if they download it and like it. Then they delete the download and talk about how awesome the purchased version is. There are people who will pay on things you don't even need to pay for, just because they like it so much. People would do the same with Sailor Moon if it was easier to do so. As it is, shipping to me from Japan is exteremely expensive, the DVDs are expensive, I can't understand them, and I won't be able to watch them without doing illegal things! This is why I'm glad Betty Ann offers the downloads. It's pretty much the only way left to keep Sailor Moon alive. I recently downloaded the manga from Neo Nobility. There's talk of TokoyPop re-releasing the English SM manga. And as soon-if-it comes back I will be deleting those downloads and buying it, just like Neo Nobility plans to do. I'm sure that if subtitled SM because available again in America, Betty Ann would get rid of downloads. And I would go buy them. Why? Because these downloads made me WANT to buy them. I do love your site, I just don't agree with your reasoning on this subject. Sorry if what I said above is a bit muddled, I'm not thinking to clearly. Plus, my hands and feet are freezing. I don't know why the heat doesn't work in my room...
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