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Post by Michele on Jul 28, 2008 4:19:08 GMT -5
Sailor Venus - Second in command and most powerful after S. Moon Maybe is another stupid invention of the Italian dub, but I remember that it's said that Jupiter has the strongest attack out of the Inner (not counting Usagi) Well, I think that Sailor Moon, being the princess, is not exactly part of the group of the Inner, therefore i support the theory Venus:First in command Mars:Second in command Jupiter:Muscles Mercury:Brains Also, Venus & Mars, especially in the anime, have the most balanced pool of attacks: Jupiter power are all offensive, while Mercury's, except for the Aqua rhapsody, are mostly defensive and strategic powers. Mars has some great offensive techniques, but the Akuryou taisan is a strategic technique since it didn't properly destroy the enemy. Venus has offensive powers too, but she has the chain, that could be used both for attack and defense.
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midori
Chibi Senshi
...I want to go where you are...
Posts: 69
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Post by midori on Jul 29, 2008 9:52:11 GMT -5
sakura fubuki: I don't really understand why Usagi-chan is not one of the Senshi, only because she is the princess. Yes, she can't control an element and she needs an item to attack, but also Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn need their staffs to do that! Do they count as Senshi? I think as long as Usagi-chan isn't starting to rule as Queen Serenity, she is Sailor Moon and the leader of the Senshi. When Usagi becomes Queen, Sailor Venus - as leader - and the other Senshi are the bodyguards of Serenity, working under the command of Venus! At least that's the way I see it. I'm sure everybody has a different opinion about that! @michele: Yes, Jupiter's attacks are very powerful, maybe that's because Jupiter is the largest planet, but I don't really know if her attacks are THE strongest. Mars attacks are pretty strong too. I guess it always depends on the situation. When an enemy is using fire as weapon, Mercury's power will for sure do the most damage. Just to give an example...I hope you understand what I want to say!
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Post by Michele on Jul 29, 2008 12:37:36 GMT -5
midori: Actually, this was said in the Italian dub. ... so, It must be wrong for sure ;D ;D Obviously the parameters to determinate how much a senshi is strong depend deeply on the situation and the enemy (obviously if the enemy uses fire, Mercury/Neptune would be the most useful, while fire and wind_based attacks would only make the enemy stronger) ...but also on the way they use their attacks (IE, Shine Aqua illusion could be used both for direct attacks and to create a wall of ice around the enemy, as seen in ep. 79)
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Post by Ellethwen on Jul 29, 2008 13:18:09 GMT -5
sakura fubuki: I don't really understand why Usagi-chan is not one of the Senshi, only because she is the princess. Yes, she can't control an element and she needs an item to attack, but also Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn need their staffs to do that! Do they count as Senshi? The reason I don't count Usagi as a Senshi is because she was never supposed to exist a Senshi. Sailor Moon never existed before--this was an accident on the part of Luna. There was no Sailor Moon in the past life and in the future, Sailor Moon loses her power as a Senshi, as stated by Neo-Queen Serenity.
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midori
Chibi Senshi
...I want to go where you are...
Posts: 69
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Post by midori on Jul 29, 2008 13:22:06 GMT -5
midori: Actually, this was said in the Italian dub. ... so, It must be wrong for sure ;D ;D ;D Obviously the parameters to determinate how much a senshi is strong depend deeply on the situation and the enemy (obviously if the enemy uses fire, Mercury/Neptune would be the most useful, while fire and wind_based attacks would only make the enemy stronger) ...but also on the way they use their attacks (IE, Shine Aqua illusion could be used both for direct attacks and to create a wall of ice around the enemy, as seen in ep. 79) Obviously. The Senshi use so many different attacks and some are stronger than others. Mercury's attack "Shabon Spray" - for example - is very useful when you want to distract an enemy, because she can great a mist with it. Mercury's other attacks on the other side are very forceful and do great damage! The attacks of the Other Senshi are only forceful, because they attack with all the power they have. Not good for distracting, but for destroying! I mean, Saturn could destroy whole planets with just a blast of her Glaive. But of course we don't want her to do that, because she would die!! But thinking about it, Saturn also has a attack to protect others - "Silent Wall", which is not destroying anything, but protecting herself and others!! Oh wow, I think it would be very interesting to do that with every attack!! ;D So many things to find out about the Senshi powers!
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Post by Michele on Jul 29, 2008 14:01:46 GMT -5
well, if we analyze every single attack of the senshi, we could found out that (almost) everyone of them has at least one defensive technique and an offensive one. in fact:
Sailor Mercury: Shabon Spray (multiple use: distracting, occasionally offensive (in ep. 124 she used it against one of that purple diamons), blocking the enemy (Shabon spray freezing)) Shine Aqua illusion (offensive, blocks the enemy freezing him, can freeze enemy's attack nullifying them) Mercury Aqua rhapsody (offensive, could be used to block enemy's attack) Mercury Aqua mirage (the only time we see it, it looks a pretty much powerful offensive attack)
Sailor Mars Akuryou taisan (blocks the enemy, could be used to free people and objects from possession) Fire Soul (purely offensive, can stop enemy's attack.) Burning Mandala (same as Fire Soul, it cut the enemies instead of burning them ;D) Mars Flame Sniper (purely offensive)
Sailor Jupiter Supreme Thunder (purely offensive, it could be used while running) Sparkling Wide pressure (same as S.T.) Jupiter Oak evolution (although it's mainly an offensive attack, it could be used to nullify the enemy's attack)
Sailor Venus Crescent Beam (offensive) Venus love-me chain (as versatile as a chain based attack could be. Used for attack, defense, to save the allies and Venus herself) Venus Love & beauty Shock (an offensive attack)
Sailor Pluto Dead scream (offensive) although she has only an offensive attack, she is agile and could use the staff as a weapon
Sailor Saturn Silence Wall (a defensive techniques, to protect Saturn and other people.) Silence Glaive Surprise (an extremely powerful attacks, it requires however some time to be performed correctly)
Sailor Neptune Deep Submerge (an offensive attack) Submarine reflection (both offensive and strategical, since it reveals the enemy's weak point)
Sailor Uranus World shaking (purely offensive attack) Space Sword Blaster (same as World Shaking) Uranus & Jupiter seems to be the only ones (not counting Pluto) that has only offensive attacks, although Jupiter's powers are, IMO, more versatile.
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midori
Chibi Senshi
...I want to go where you are...
Posts: 69
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Post by midori on Jul 29, 2008 14:16:05 GMT -5
@michele: Yes, I agree with you.
But don't forget the Sailor Star Lights. Well, we only see one attack of each member, but their attacks seem pretty powerful too!
And well, the attacks of Sailor Chibi Moon..."Pink Sugar Heart Attack"! I like the attack, it's cute, but not doing much damage. "Twinkle Yell" isn't a attack - to me at least - because the real attack is done through Super Sailor Moon with her "Moon Gorgeous Meditation"!
But Sailor Chibi Moon is the youngest of the Senshi. She will grow up and get stronger! I would like to know her attacks as an grown-up Senshi!!!
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Post by Sailor Eris on Jul 31, 2008 18:35:14 GMT -5
But Sailor Chibi Moon is the youngest of the Senshi. She will grow up and get stronger! I would like to know her attacks as an grown-up Senshi!!! IMO, I don't think Sailor Chibi Moon's power is going to be any different to her mothers as a senshi, I guess thats why in the manga, she got the same items as Sailor Moon, starting with a cutie moon rod, then the moon stick and the tier? The rod used for starlight honey moon therapy kiss (except for the pink sugar heart rod). But since everyone is talking about how Sailor Moon was never meant to be a senshi because she is the princess, the question comes into my mind, Is Chibi Usa meant to fight too, like her mother, or be princess and be protected by her senshi??
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Post by Rissachu on Jul 31, 2008 19:17:19 GMT -5
sakura fubuki: I don't really understand why Usagi-chan is not one of the Senshi, only because she is the princess. Yes, she can't control an element and she needs an item to attack, but also Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn need their staffs to do that! Do they count as Senshi? The reason I don't count Usagi as a Senshi is because she was never supposed to exist a Senshi. Sailor Moon never existed before--this was an accident on the part of Luna. There was no Sailor Moon in the past life and in the future, Sailor Moon loses her power as a Senshi, as stated by Neo-Queen Serenity. Please, tell me where it states Usagi wasn't meant to be a senshi. Just because she was the princess doesn't mean she wasn't supposed to be a senshi. I don't think Luna has the power to give whoever she wants the power to be a senshi. She just had the transformation items.. found the holders of the powers, and informed them they were senshi. If Mau cats had the power to make anyone senshi, they'd be getting kidnapped left and right. "MAKE ME A SENSHI! I WANNA RULE THE WORLD!"
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Post by Ellethwen on Aug 1, 2008 0:52:42 GMT -5
It's generally accepted that, if there was no Sailor Moon in the past life, then why is there suddenly a Sailor Moon? There is never a Sailor Moon mentioned in the past life. If either Queen Serenity, Princess Serenity, or someone else dangling out there was Sailor Moon, don't you think that they would have transformed and fought?
Also, in Act 9, Luna said that her mission had been to awaken Usagi to protect the princess. She also mentions that if she had realized Tuxedo Kamen was Endymion, Usagi wouldn't have had to suffer. It seems a bit strange that Luna would be saying that if the princess was meant to be Sailor Moon.
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Post by Bleu Eyed Brunette on Aug 2, 2008 16:00:32 GMT -5
Ellethwen that's really interesting. In the manga at least, all the senshi are princesses of their respective planets... so I wonder why the princess of the moon had special treatment. Do you have any idea? That's something I've wondered about before too.
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serefan
Chibi Senshi
My Past Will Give Me Strength
Posts: 61
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Post by serefan on Aug 2, 2008 16:31:34 GMT -5
I heard that too about Sailor Moon not supposed to exist, but I have begun to have my doubts now. I think the reasoning behind that is that Usagi, as Princess Serenity, should prepare herself for when she's Queen and concentrate on that while the senshi protect her, but how is not taking part in the fight supposed to help her become a better Queen? Or is she supposd to fight, just not as a senshi? I understand Neo Queen Serenity being too busy to be a senshi, because she has a Kingdom to rule and ruling takes a lot of energy, and on the other hand her Silver Crystal is what maintaines people's wellbeing long life spans in the 30th century, which if it's a process that must be kept up every day and not something that can be granted and be completed and done with in a moment, must take a lot of power and energy out of her per day.
On the other hand, Luna said something about how they sealed her memory (Luna's) so Sailor Venus could pose as the Princess and Luna coud awake Usagi as Sailor Moon, all to protect the Princess. But how is exactly making her a senshi, a way to protect the princess? Would the enemy never imagine a senshi could be the Princess, since she wasn't a senshi in the Moon Kingdom? Or was it a way to protect the Princess, because it trained her to make her ready to fight and better protect herself? Besides, if the enemy wasn't supposed to believe the Princess could be one of the sailor senshi, then why did Sailor Venus pose as the Princess while being a senshi? Why did she pose as the senshi Sailor V before, with a crescent moon mark on her forehead (those familiar with the manga of "Code Name: Sailor V" know that she had this fake moon sigil since she was Sailor V) and moon-related attacks like the crescent beam to fight the enemy, while trying to fool them?
On the other hand, I don't know how much significance this could have, but I've been reading books and stuf about Bushido, which is the code of the warrior in Japan (followed by the Samurai) and I read very interesting things that explain that even women of the higher classes who weren't warriors were always trained at least in the basics to be able protect themselves and their children in case an enemy threatened when their husbands and protectors weren't close by, and taught on the correct way to successfully commit suicide if their virginity or honor was at stake, or if they wanted to follow their husbands to the afterlife (remember Princess Serenity's suicide?). That may confirm the theory that she was made a senshi so she could protect herself if need be, as long as the other senshi didn't know she was their Princess.
On the other hand, while it is true that Emperors in Japan have usually had symbolic power and rarely assumed their role of Commander-in-chief of the forces on the field, leaving that to the Shoguns often, may be making the Princess a sailor senshi was a was a way for her to be the Commander-in-chief de facto and not just de jure, in a way uniting both the position of Emperor and Shogun which would sound logical considering how the Shoguns' figure has been in a way "romanticized" in Japanese popular culture.
What do you think?
EDIT: As for why she gets special treatment, well I think she *is* supposed to be the Japanese Emperor's "equivalent" in the SM world, as a way of saying, and as such chosen by Heaven, God, fate or whatever to lead all the people towards happiness. In the manga, she has the Solar System's (and galaxy's) strongest sailor crystal, therefore she's the strongest planetary guardian. Besides, her powers of bringing people back to life, etc, are unparalleled, so I can see why the others would follow her. I always understood the Silver Millenium included all the planets of the Solar System (with the exception of Earth) and not just the Moon, but the Moon was just the capital of the Kingdom, where the supreme monarch and protector, Queen Serenity, lived. In some translations of the manga, in the part of Stars where Sailor Pluto remembers how Queen Serenity gave her, Uranus and Neptune their castles at their birth, she refers to Queen Serenity as "Queen of the Solar System" while in others she calls her "Queen of the Silver Millenium" instead.
SM has also been based on some chinese mythology and culture as well (like for example, with Endymion's Shitteno). I also read in wiki: "In some cases, such as during the Southern Song dynasty, political power in East Asia was effectively split among several governments, however the political fiction that the head of one of these states was the legitimate emperor to which the other states owed allegiance was maintained"
Replace "governments" and "states" with "planets", and there you have the explanation of the SM hierarchy.
(source: http:// en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Emperor_of_China # Position_and_power )
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Post by Bleu Eyed Brunette on Aug 5, 2008 18:21:40 GMT -5
serefan you make awesome posts. I'm still trying to digest all of that. lol. I'm curious though, if the position of who becomes the current queen is based on who has the strongest sailor crystal, does that mean that if another happened to have the strongest crystal that was not from the Moon (hypothetically), they would become the queen?
@__@
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serefan
Chibi Senshi
My Past Will Give Me Strength
Posts: 61
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Post by serefan on Aug 5, 2008 20:15:10 GMT -5
Interesting question! For another senshi to be able to "contest" Sailor Moon's authority, I suppose she would have to be a senshi from one of the celestial bodies (planets, asteroids, etc) within our Solar System, since that's the territory the Moon royals rule over and protect. That isn't so likely to happen, since many of the planets and asteroids already have a senshi, and it isn't every day that a senshi is born wit the galaxy's strongest sailor crystal, right? Someone who is more powerful than Sailor Moon/Neo Queen Serenity/etc in the manga would have to be, I don't know, someone like a fictional super deity... (remember they already refer to Neo Queen Serenity as "goddess" a few times in the manga). And even if such a senshi with that kind of super powerful sailor crystal showed up, they would have to be a senshi worth following (in other words, not someone like manga-Galaxia, definitely), someone who uses their power for good and doesn't turn evil, someone that isn't easily brainwashed, someone who can bring people back to life, and last, Sailor Moon would have to decide to serve *her* first, and only then would Sailor Moon's senshi follow. It would do no good to this new powerful senshi t try to overthrow Sailor Moon instead. Keep in mind loyalty is the main cuality of the warrior by Japanese standards. Even if a master is overthrown or something, the Japanese warrior or samurai would almost always consider his duty to stay loyal, no matter what, and even in some cases take revenge in the name of their old master.
I think the sailor crystal of the moon royals, which is the Silver Crystal, as such a powerful star seed or sailor crystal is what allowed the moon royals to protect the Solar System, therefore was probably part of the reason the senshi of the other planets "sensed" the strong light of the moon royal and chose to follow her (and because the inners were so young, that was probably why, as we see in a flashback in the Dream arc of the manga, Queen Serenity appointed them to serve and protect her daughter instead). The story made it look like someone as powerful and "good" as the moon royals isn't born every day in the SM universe.
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