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Post by Claire on Jul 2, 2008 21:36:07 GMT -5
I guess so. It is obviously written for teenage girls to lap up, haha, the ideal, portrayal of the guy that every girl wants. Satisfies those superficial fantasies. I know that's why most teenage girls who are my friends love the series, because of the idea of Edward, a perfect godly boyfriend.
All right. Well a few characters here and there, but a majority love her, and I still believe she is a Mary Sue for many other reasons.
I did like the Jacob-Bella relationship until Jacob's character just randomly changed without much explanation and he became all jerkish and egoistical. I feel like the Jacob-Bella relationship was more real than Edward-Bella though. I could understand it, as opposed to "Gee, she smells delicious" and "Omg, he is so pretty"
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Post by Ellethwen on Jul 2, 2008 21:57:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but saying that the books were written as nothing more than something to satisfy a superficial fantasy isn't very fair towards Stephenie Meyer
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Post by thewhiterabbit on Jul 3, 2008 2:32:25 GMT -5
I thought the sparkly vampire thing was awesome!! I really like the Twilight series, but I can understand how it would annoy some people, like the intensity of Bella and Edward's relationship and the cliche of Bella being 'average'. This helps alot of readers to relate to Bella though. I like the series because, like any good fiction novel, it's a brilliant piece of escapism. I find it a little odd that the Twilight fandom contributes to you disliking it Claire, does it really matter how others react to it? If you don't like it, fair enough, but this is not the first, or last, series to gain a lot of fans. I had never even heard of Stephanie Meyer or the series when I started reading. This may seem stupid, but who's Mary Sue?!
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Post by Claire on Jul 3, 2008 7:57:28 GMT -5
Ellethwen: I'm sorry; but that's what I really see the books as, a sort of self satisfaction in a way. Bella sometimes seems to be just a self-insert of any girl, as is already made obvious by people who say that they can "relate" to Bella. But a self-insert isn't a real character, it's just a character created with nearly no memorable character traits so that virtually any girl can pretend to be her and fulfill all those fantasies. But everyone has their own opinion. ;] It's not really the fandom, it's just those crazy girls in my school who don't let me say a word against the series because that would be utter blasphemy. It gets a bit annoying. Oh, Mary Sue is a term used by people in literature for a character who is utterly cliche and has no notable character traits or any notable character flaws, as characters should have, and is made out to be extremely good and wholesome (because of no notable flaws), and enjoys all the advantages of the author's world, and also attracts nearly every character in the book so that anyone is willing to risk their life for them. Like Bella. Edward could also be described as a Mary Sue as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue (here's info here)
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Post by Ellethwen on Jul 3, 2008 11:26:59 GMT -5
Mary Sue is not defined by cliche.
The term Mary Sue started in the Star Trek fandom, when a fanfiction author named Paula Smith created a character name Lieutenant Mary-Sue. Mary-Sue came out of nowhere but was perfect and flawless, and everyone loved her, even though she had no history. Eventually, she saved the crew, but died tragically.
That is a Mary Sue: A perfect character everyone loves (literally everyone) that came out of nowhere. Not a cliched character.
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Post by thewhiterabbit on Jul 3, 2008 18:16:40 GMT -5
^ Thanks for the Mary Sue info guys, I've never heard any one reference her at all!! Claire, I can understand that your situation at school would be annoying, I had thought you meant all net fandom in general. Imagine if people judged Sailor Moon because of our fandom! XD
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Post by Claire on Jul 4, 2008 14:20:59 GMT -5
The definition of Mary Sue varies but it usually includes -cliche -self-insertion -"author's pet" (everyone loves this one character) -lack of notbale character traits
That is how I define it, I don't think there's an official definition, but the general idea is just a pejorative term used to describe a character is "too good".
Haha, net fandom I am okay with, I can just not walk into a Twilight fan community or something, it's easy. Except for those people who join our Twilight hating community and try to post things like 'u guys suk!! EDWARD IS SOOOO HOTTT U R JUST JELUS.' Basically, I don't mind fans who are civil and understand everyone has an opinion and can spell correctly, and the fans that want to "kill me" for saying something against it I just get annoyed.
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Post by Ellethwen on Jul 4, 2008 14:27:16 GMT -5
I still strongly disagree with the inclusion of cliches. Cliched ideas can be pulled off quite beautifully well.
Anyways, There's obviously no longer any point in me debating this subject. Fare thee well, and don't run into the Twilight-obsessed girls. Hopefully you'll find something you can really really enjoy reading.
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Post by Claire on Jul 5, 2008 9:22:59 GMT -5
Haha, okay. I did recently finish reading Wicked by Gregory Maguire. It was a very good book, I loved it. :] Nothing like the musical though.
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Post by *Savvy* ツ on Jul 5, 2008 17:31:59 GMT -5
im sorry people but i love the twilight series. i am going to a party for the fourth book and im going as bella.
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ladylilith
Heart Crystal
Time paradox
Humans are so... fascinating.
Posts: 4,815
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Post by ladylilith on Jul 6, 2008 11:11:24 GMT -5
The best thing about hose books is, that they advertise Vampire literature among teenagers.
With the adventures of Bella and Edward, the youngest readers can appreciate for the first time something about the magnificent world of the gothic literature, which would have been neglected either way.
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Post by *Savvy* ツ on Jul 6, 2008 13:05:44 GMT -5
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Post by *Savvy* ツ on Jul 13, 2008 19:32:45 GMT -5
no offense... but are there any jacob black lovers in here? just wonering because I HATE JACOB BLACK! he is a jerk and everythng. i love edward because he loves her for who she is and all. jacob, ooo he just kissed her without asking what she would think abbout it. tats soo inconsiderate. btw, i love edward! hes jsut sooooooooooo beautiful. *vampire fan* epona yeah i do Agree. leah does hate bella with a passion. but i just cant stop loving edwella! edwella forvever. i know alot of you think edward is a jerk for leaving bella but look at wat happened. because of jacob black, bella tried to kill herself!(refrence;new moon) thats why i will always go for edward. i dislike jacob because hes just not the one for bella. i will alwayslove any vampire. plus, jacob hates all vamires. not all of them are that bad. he look at them from the outside. not the inside! look at alice! he thinks shes just goin to kill her or something. and he thinks edward is trying to seduce bella into becoming one like him. and he hates her for that. F.Y.I bella and edward are getting married! and now he hates her for that too! so i just think they should stay friends. i satnd with bella& edward forever!
EDWELLA 4 EVA! president of the i hate jacob club. JOIN TODAY! JACOB BLAC MUST DIE! I HOPE HE DOES IN BREAKING DAWN
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Post by sakura fubuki on Jul 20, 2008 16:37:42 GMT -5
Epona, yup, I agree. Rosalie is my favorite next to Jacob. They're the only reasons I keep reading. I guess that answers what the person above me asked. I understand that Jacob can be a jerk sometimes but at least he's realistic (besides the werewolf thing) I can actually see him as a real teenage guy. Making mistakes is human. Edward on the other hand, was made to be "perfect" but nobody realizes how abusive he actually is. Controlling Bella every chance he gets. Telling her what she can and cannot do. Now that's who I call a jerk. If he was my boyfriend, he's be LONG gone.
Let me say this again: I HATE THE TWILIGHT SERIES WITH A PASSION.
To the person who said "I'd be depressed if my boyfriend left me", well, of course, many people would be. But enough to kill yourself? Or do dangerous things because you're schizophrenic and hear his voice in your head (like jumping off a cliff)? That's what I call a visit to the neurologist.
And about people thinking the sparkly thing was cool, HAHAHAHAH, wow. To me, that was CORNBALL. It was as if Stephanie had nothing else to write, as if she ran out of ideas and it was a last minute thing. How do you think they're gonna make this sparkly thing work in the movie? I'm gonna laugh out loud when I see it.
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Post by covetouscreature on Jul 23, 2008 23:19:15 GMT -5
Now, I don't hate the Twilight series books, but I would prefer never to read them again ( I have no idea why I even read them, it was probably because I had nothing else to read). First of all, I hate Bella's personality, she has no engaging trait that makes me want to keep reading the book. And I could never understand the connection between Edward and Bella. It seems to me, they have nothing in common whatsoever. Edward just likes Bella because he can't read her thoughts (that's what it seems to me-because she is really boring) and Bella only likes him because he is extremely good-looking?
And the book is not romantic at all. Sure, some of the things Edward does is cute, but in general, most of the things he does is creepy. Such as stalking her and sneaking in her room to stare at her.
And the whole vampire thing? I wouldn't even consider it a "vampire" book. I mean, it seems she just made them all vampires so she could explain why they're so gorgeous, and put some type of plot in the book. They're all wonderful, well-behaved vampires, and it's just not exciting at all. She should have just left out the whole vampire thing. It's not a different type of vampire book to me at all, Anne Rice's vampire books are different types of books to me. But, yeah, it's really annoying trying to explain this to my friends, because they seriously love the book and will not even listen to my argument against the books.
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