Elly
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by Elly on Aug 2, 2005 18:09:49 GMT -5
All drama aside, I would like to point out a few things I noticed, mainly dealing with similarities between my website, Ballads and Bows (http://www.reisei-sa.net/ballad/) and De'Angelo's new graphic site. I'm pointing out these similarities just so that I'm not the only one who notices them, to confirm that I'm NOT going insane, LOL. Here's what I've seen so far: 1) My biggest complaint is that it seems De'Angelo has taken my idea of five submissions from staff a month. My site isn't a graphic site, but instead a review site. I have had my site online since November, and De'Angelo was at one point a staff member there who should have been familiar with my rules. It seems that De'Angelo has modified one of my rules for his own purposes, without giving any kind of mention as to where he got it from. The quote in question: "As for staff jobs, all we ask is that you are able to submit at least 5 graphics per month. If you can't do that many for some reason, just let us know and we'll arrange something." - De'Angelo. The rule he may have plagarised from my site: "There are five songs up for review per month, and I expect them to be finished by the 28th of each month. No exceptions unless there is a dire emergency, and you have notified me of the situation BEFORE the deadline." - www.reisei-sa.net/ballad/rules.htmlI'm not saying that five submissions a month from staff members is unique, but his phrasing seemed rather similar to mine. Maybe nicer terminology, but the same general principle. Maybe I'm looking into it too much, but isn't it reasonable to think that maybe, after having agreed to my rules and reading my rules page, to have gotten his idea for this from my site? Before I continue, let me remind everyone of the dictionary definition of plagiarism: plagiarism - n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own - dictionary.com Please note definition number two: taking someones words OR IDEAS as if they were your own. This seems to be what has happened, and I'm not at all appreciative. 2) My second complaint are the staff names. It is not unique to have sailor moon names for reviewers, but this is the second time De'Angelo has modeled "reviewer" names after sailor senshi, as I have done since November 2004 for my websites reviewers. I'm not saying it was outright stolen, as it is fairly common. It's just another similarity that I'd like to point out. 3) The layout. My current layout has navigation at the top in a "box" of sorts (check out the main website to compare my layout and his) with image maps used to navigate. Just like De'Angelos. Isn't that interesting? Image maps have become a bit uncommon on the internet these days for layouts (although they are by far not obsolete or inferior at all - most people just like to slice images in Photoshop instead these days) so I'm a little worried about that similarity as well. Let me know if I'm crazy at any point in my writing this. 4) Last but not least. This has to deal with the staff again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most layout sites start out with just the owner, and then gain staff as they gain popularity and hits? Ballads and Bows also started out like De'Angelo's site, with advertisements to join the staff as soon as the site opened (in his case though, he's starting even before then o.O) Both Ballads and Bows and De'Angelos ideas ARE able to run without a staff - but the fact that he's opening with a staff just like I did is...a little unusual. Another similarity, but I can't prove anything. Again, I would like to state that I am not trying to stir up drama here. I'm just wondering if I'm going insane, or if these similarities do in fact exist, and that plagarism may be occuring. I'm just looking for some FRIENDLY (please remember to keep this friendly, potential staff and/or owner) feedback from the users on what they think about this. Of course, I am hoping that any situation dealing with plagarism can be solved quietly and quickly, without any drama. Here's to that *toasts*
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Post by D'lo on Aug 2, 2005 19:48:33 GMT -5
I keep wondering why you keep wondering if I'm plagiarizing or not.
That rule - not plagiarized at all. I mean, it's natural that I'd only ask for a certain amount of graphics each month along with an explanation of why it couldn't be done each month. Common courtesy.
Staff Names - nothing's wrong with having staff names similar to the Sailor Senshi. I mean, I started calling myself 'Mars' because I like that name alot and it makes me sound like a true Sailor Mars fan - which I am. Following that, I decided to have the staff as the main fighters in PGSM - 6 senshi and Tuxedo Kamen (the good guys for MOST of the series). When I feel the site is going well enough for a few more staff members, the Shitennou will be offered as positions eventually.
Image maps? Those aren't image maps. Those are the avatars of the staff, which will change whenever a staff member changes his or her avatar/section layout. Notice, my avatar changed to suit my section's layout. (For your reference, every staff member has a section that has a layout made by them with an avatar to match for updating/staff page. Each section has ALL the graphics that the staff member has made for Something Designs.) Those avatars link directly to each staff member's sections on every page. All of the avatars on the staff page will also, eventually, link to the sections.
Staff-site - The site hasn't started yet. I never said it was open yet. I'm still getting things together and asking around for staff members. I only just finished my section today; all I have to do now is finish the other pages and get all staff members (current and future) to get their sections done asap. I want to start out with a full-fledged staff of the whole team. Some things may change regarding the staff, as it is strictly a PGSM staff, as you can see.
If you still have questions, fire away. I'm not going anywhere for a while. Of course, I agree on the drama-free part. ~.^
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Angel
Senshi in Training
Angel
Posts: 29
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Post by Angel on Aug 2, 2005 20:04:10 GMT -5
WOW, I never noticed that...Sorry mars....I don't want to be a staff member ~o^
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Post by D'lo on Aug 2, 2005 20:10:10 GMT -5
It's okay. I still have less than a month before I have much time to even work on it. I'm not saying I've given it up, though.
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Elly
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by Elly on Aug 2, 2005 20:26:53 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but to me it sounds like plagarism, considering the ideas are so closely related. Five graphics a month? Usually, graphic sites that have staff don't have a set amount that you have to make each month - it's usually done by donations and things like that. And five sounds a little close to home. Especially with the way you phrased what you expected. Two sentences? Very similar in structure to those on my website? Come on.
I question whether or not you plagiarize, because quite frankly you have plagiarized me in the past, twice as a matter of fact. You've lied to me before and to others, so I'm not so sure that you wouldn't again. I mean, stolen lyric translations from my site, claiming they're your own when you admitted on your website that you can't speak Japanese...? But I'd rather not delve into the past, merely give you reasoning as to why I believe you may still plagiarize my work, and why I will continue to question the integrity of the originality on your sites. Especially when they seem very familiar to works of my own.
If you had read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I referenced the fact that your site is not yet open. Also, you originally commented that it would include all Sailor soldiers and the Starlights as reviewers if it ever got that far - no mention of PGSM characters, but that only validates my suspicion that you're getting your ideas from me. I believe (not to be pompous or anything) that I was the first site to use PGSM characters as staff for a review site (as it fit for the theme of the site), so I can safely say that your decision to also use these characters as reviewers is...UNUSUALLY similar. Perhaps more careful consideration is necessary when replying to my posts? Similiarly, you would realize that I never said there was anything WRONG with the senshi names...commented that they have perhaps become common even. I was just referencing it as another similarity, although your decision to change the positions to PGSM characters makes me wonder a little more about the originality of reviewers as characters in the first place, considering I did it first as far as I know for my staff.
I'm not trying to get staff members to leave your site or anything. By all means, if they wish to participate in your project, they are more than welcome to do so by me even if they have chosen not to read my replies to anything. Personal decisions are personal decisions, unless they harm someone else or take someone's work from them without credit. So, to those of you reading this dispute who may decide to leave the staff - I would like to remind you that my posts are not intended to change anyone's mind, merely to ask others if they also notice the similarities I have pointed out, and will continue to point out should they continue to arise.
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Post by D'lo on Aug 2, 2005 20:56:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry for my assumption and misunderstanding that you have previously ruled invalid, but the truth is that I'm just trying to do things that you haven't - including that all staff members have their own section of graphics. Plus, I'm trying to have a minimum number of staff members - more to the good side than the evil side. I'm not trying to steal anything or any ideas and I'm not lying to anyone here. If you don't believe me, Elly, it's not my problem. If any present/future staff members want to step down, do so if you want.
Also, Elly, posting this did get my fired up. I ask you to not post this before I lose my patience and decline to reply, as drama would start that way with me usually. I'll admit that.
And just because I've done bad in the past doesn't mean that I (1) meant to or (2) still do. If you haven't noticed, I'm running honest sites and I'm not lying to get myself out of trouble anymore. Please don't respond to the lying part, as I'm sure you'll try and say that I do lie. Ever since you last accused me of theft, I haven't stolen anything and I've been trying to stay civil. So why the heck would I steal? What is there to steal? I mean, your site is a music review site - my project is a graphics shop owned and co-owned by me and its staff members.
Also, I kept it at 5 graphics a month because no one complained about it. Until someone on the staff complains, I'm not changing it.
I'll stop there before I aid in creating drama.
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Post by Betty Ann on Aug 2, 2005 21:08:29 GMT -5
Elly, I think you're looking a little too far into things here. Maybe a lot too far into things. Here's my take on things: 1 - the two sentences for the rules are NOTHING alike. I don't think that the fact that it has two sentences had anything to do with it... First of all, if someone was plagiarizing you, I don't think they'd think about the number of sentences. Come on, that's a bit much. You can't just decide that everyone who has two sentences for rules is copying you. And really, how many ways CAN you phrase the rules? The wording is... nothing alike. So what if the general idea is the same? On my website, for the graphics, it says, "These icons are free for you to edit and use. Please do not put my icons on your website and claim that they are your own. If you use them, please give me some form of credit." Sounds awful similar to... EVERY SINGLE graphics site out there. Does that mean I'm copying? Does that mean they're copying? No. It's just some rules; it's not like there are a million ways to say it. Besides, are you telling me that you're worried about something so silly as two sentences? If he copied the EXACT rule, then it would be plagiarism. But he didn't; he just uses a similar rule to thousands of other websites. And the thing about submitting five is... I don't even have words. Are you suggesting that you have exclusive rights to the number five? 2 - Sailor Moon names... I don't see any problem with that. There are dozens of other sites who have used names from Sailor Moon for different staff members. There were people who did it before you did it. And people will continue to do it. 3 - The layout thing is also really weird. Again, you don't have exclusive rights to layouts with image maps at the top. LOTS of sites still use them - *I* even have a site that uses them: soul-hunter.com/jabberwocky/ Besides, his layout is really nothing like yours. 4 - How, exactly, can this site open without staff members who have already made graphics? It can't open without staff, and it can't get staff without requesting their assistance. Seems like common sense to me; not copying. Elly, I'm sorry that he copied you in the past. That was wrong, of course, but you can't assume that he has copied you with everything he does. The things you've pointed out seem very far-fetched. If he opened a music review site that was an AWFUL lot like yours, it might be different. But the whole concept of his site is totally different, and it seems to me that he's just used very common things used in MANY sites. I really, honestly believe that he hasn't copied you in any way. I know that you have a lot of anger towards him, but you shouldn't let that get in the way of thinking clearly. I'm not on your side, I'm not on his side; I'm not on anyone's side. I just call things like I see them. And in this situation, I feel that he's not copying. I'm reminded of William Faulkner's That Evening Sun, where the main character (Nancy) because so paranoid about something that really isn't even a threat, that she causes herself unnecessary anguish. Elly, I don't want you to end up like Nancy; I want you to be happy, without worrying about such far-fetched things. We all know that you have a wonderful site, but if someone was copying it, I think they would take a more direct approach. Just on the things you've pointed out, you could say that he's copied THOUSANDS of other sites. Or vice versa; that you copied the sites that did those things BEFORE you. That's not really fair, is it? I would like to resolve all these dramatic situations. I just want everyone to be happy and coexist peacefully as a Sailor Moon fan COMMUNITY. So let's try to work this out, shall we? Tell me what I can do to help you guys, and I'll do everything in my power.
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Elly
Senshi in Training
Posts: 7
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Post by Elly on Aug 2, 2005 21:48:30 GMT -5
As I've written several times, my posts were not intended to create drama - merely feedback, to check myself as to whether or not I was looking too much into this, which Betty Ann seems to be the only person to have realized that and actually given me the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks Betty =)
I do tend to react to situations dealing with De'Angelo, because I have had issues with theft from him in the past. I tend to jump in advance to it just in case it's happening again. I wouldn't call this extreme paranoia, but possibly moderate paranoia. See, my whole thing about being "paranoid" was that if you worried about something happening to you that's never happened to you before and has slim chance, then you have a problem. I've been stolen from twice, some ways very direct, other ways very indirectly that I wouldn't have noticed had not other webmasters who found source code from my site on his. So, when things are brought to my attention concerning De'Angelo and another theft, I tend to look into it, and react. Which is why I was asking for opinions about whether or not I was over reacting. I provided what evidence I thought there was, hoping for the reaction I got from Betty Ann. Yes, I am a bit jumpy about these things. Having my work stolen has happened many times, and so now I just try to nip it in the bud, so to speak, just in case another situation occurs, if that makes any sense o.O;;
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Post by D'lo on Aug 2, 2005 21:59:09 GMT -5
I'm choosing not to answer any of that post, as I'm sure it'll start something that would be...unnecessary.
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Post by Betty Ann on Aug 3, 2005 1:07:41 GMT -5
De'Angelo - keep working and let everyone know that you've changed your ways. I think you're doing a good job of that, but remember that for some people, it takes time. Time is the biggest part of forgiveness; remember that! Keep working hard in spite of any negative comments that you might receive. Prove yourself to be someone good, and things will work out for you in the end! Elly - I feel your pain; I've had LOTS of things stolen from me. People seem to think that just because I write a LOT of information, it's free for the taking. Many people have copied word-for-word, and one girl copied the WHOLE encyclopaedia! Some people copy images, some people copy whole sections. For me, it's always verbatim copying, with no changes. I guess people just assume that it's like those dollbox stats - free to replicate at will. The just don't realize that there's someone behind all that, who worked for years to type all that up. So I can understand your paranoia about things, but you have to be careful not to let it go too far. Basically, nothing on the internet is original anymore, unless it's your own words, or your own creation. I'll use my site for an example... the avatars and things are DEFINITELY mine, and those are definitely my words all over. But the Encyclopaedia? It's been done many times, and will be done many more times. I can't really legitimately accuse someone of copying me for making a SEPARATE encyclopaedia, since it's really a wide-spread thing. It's good to always keep an eye peeled for theft. But I think it would also be good not to hold a bias about De'Angelo in particular. If you want to watch him, that's fine, but it seems to me that he's trying. I honestly don't find any stolen content on his graphics site OR main site, and he's doing a wonderful job of crediting everyone. Of course, I'm not defending his past actions, but he DOES seem to be working on making amends with most people, from my point of view. Everyone - I think we all need to kiss and make up! Everybody keep in mind that it's MUCH better for all of us if we're all happy - who wants to be angry all the time? Why should we all waste our lives being angry over something so trivial? Let's try to find in each other the thing that brings us all together - how much we love Sailor Moon! Because let's face it, anybody who loves Sailor Moon CAN'T be all that bad
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Post by D'lo on Aug 3, 2005 1:29:51 GMT -5
Very true! Once again, well put Betty. I believe the same thing. And thanks for believing that I am changing - it means a lot (seriously).
P.S. Why aren't you ever on AIM? I'm Subarashii Dream if you ever want to talk.
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Post by alexander on Aug 3, 2005 7:20:56 GMT -5
*agrees with Elly* Actually, thank you for posting this, at least I know that I am not the only one... Betty... you are a TOO good person... Now I realize that Sat and the SMP ARE right about this guy, but, well, it's TOO late. De'Angelo, have fun here, I am leaving because I can't stand you, anyway, good luck with your websites and STOP BOTHERING ME ON AIM!!!
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Post by Betty Ann on Aug 3, 2005 8:30:27 GMT -5
*agrees with Elly* Actually, thank you for posting this, at least I know that I am not the only one... Betty... you are a TOO good person... Now I realize that Sat and the SMP ARE right about this guy, but, well, it's TOO late. De'Angelo, have fun here, I am leaving because I can't stand you, anyway, good luck with your websites and STOP BOTHERING ME ON AIM!!! Alexander, if you would read carefully, you'd see that Elly realized that he's not copying her on his website. You're being a bit confrontational here, and are seeming to WANT to fight instead of wanting to try to resolve things. That kind of attitude never gets anyone anywhere.
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Post by Moonstar on Aug 4, 2005 15:24:10 GMT -5
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Post by D'lo on Aug 4, 2005 16:52:26 GMT -5
O.o I only see text and an avatar. Is there a bug in the code?
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